The Great R&D Debate

“There is hardly any worthwhile research from our IITs” says Jairam Ramesh. True. R&D in an academic context, means developing a new capability that has not been done elsewhere or being among the first few to demonstrate it.

Look at MIT, Princeton, Cornell, and Caltec etc. people say. They want the IITs to be in that league. This is indeed a truly laudable ambition. Is this realistic? Does India have the capital, resources and infrastructure they have? Is India wishing a champagne lifestyle on a beer budget?

Here is a reality Check.

India is playing catch up even in commercial areas by importing “Packaged Technology” for Mobile phones, Automobiles, Internet connectivity and even FMCG (Fast Moving Consumer Goods). Even the Tata Nano, an excellent engineering feat in its own right, has an imported engine design. Indians are conservative lot, risk averse and afraid to fail. Besides it is easier and faster time to money to buy working solutions rather than develop indigenously. The upside, India doesn’t have a “Not Invented Here” attitude.

Look at the once ubiquitous coin box. It was a magnificent and Herculean effort that brought phone connectivity to the remotest parts of India. What about a follow on to this? Technology changed, mobile phones appeared. Even the poorest of the poor have Mobile phones. India did not progress fast enough. Despite its phenomenal success, this telecommunication effort appears to be a “one trick pony”.

There are outstanding examples in Defense and Aero-Space. However, most of these accomplishments are replication of what has already been accomplished by US and Russia. The first moon probes were launched successfully in 1966. Russia was first with the US four months behind. India caught up with Chandrayaan I achieving what was accomplished over forty years before. At least here India is catching up.

The notable exception is Atomic Energy. India in some areas is at the forefront of nuclear technology. And yet Nuclear Power Plants are being imported. India’s first Test Fast Breeder Reactor which is based on a French Design at Kalpakam, Tamil Nadu attained criticality (i.e. success) in 1985. The follow on commercial prototype is yet to go into production more than 20 years later. India does not move fast enough.

Look at China! They are replicating what Japan did. Copy and sell cheaper. They have even copied the ubiquitous three wheeler auto rickshaw that plies Indian streets and roads. Why is India lagging in this arena?

Yes R&D is important, there is no argument. But the IITs and for that matter India needs to be prudent and place bets intelligently. Go for small successes and build upon them. Given the circumstances this is a long and arduous road that has to be taken.

This hue and cry about lack of research at IIT is an indication of a herd with Science and Technology blinders, wanting to vie with the Joneses with hollow drums that only make a lot of noise.

This may be heresy, in the short run; it is more efficient to facilitate the best minds going to where the research is being undertaken rather than waiting for research to come to the best minds. This is a fact, this is happening. People can moan, groan and lament. This is reality. Let it not be fought. India has more excellent minds than opportunity. Let these minds flourish elsewhere rather than rot in India. Indians have migrated to the West and the world has benefited by their efforts. This is working for India. India’s investment is in human resources and in developing great minds. It has paid rich dividends and has worked so far.

Trade and commerce is freer in this interconnected world where past walls have crumbled. The West has technology to sell; India should be in a position to buy. As long as India is in a position to buy, it can afford to be in this position.

The take away here is that India should continue to acquire technology and pursue import substitution. At the same time aggressively produce goods and services that the West will want to buy. To date the biggest successful export from India is Human Resources; both Brain and Brawn. Somewhere in the distant future, the laudable goal of being abreast in R&D with the world will become a reality.

Prescription for IIT:

India has a lot of catching up to do and it has to be done at an accelerated pace. India also needs to be active in new emerging areas to be in the lead. The IITs can play an important role in both these endevours by:

• Leveraging significant scientific discoveries that are proven in the lab
• Determine its relevance to Indian environment and needs
• Evaluate the feasibility of developing the technology to make the discovery commercially viable or meet a specific purpose.
• Acquire the licensing if applicable and build upon it.
•  License the outcome to generate a revenue stream

Becoming a resource to Industry is another area of importance. Graduating students and alumni are the best resources to establish links with industry. Programs should be launched to make it attractive for industry to engage with IIT on joint projects. Faculty should be encouraged to spend a portion of their time in industry and be allowed to retain part of the earnings resulting from their personal engagement.

Jai Hind!

Mission IIT

IIT is frequently in the cross hairs of controversy. Recently the first salvo was fired by Jairam Ramesh, who claimed that the faculty at IIT is not world class¹ and that they are excellent because of the quality of the students. This was followed by Narayan Murthy’s claim that IIT graduates are not up to snuff and that coaching classes was one of the reasons responsible for this situation². Anand Kumar, who founded Super 30, countered that the coaching classes are geared to crack the JEE³. Representatives of the faculty weighed in with observations of their own and echoed Murthy⁴.

The biggest asset the IITs have created is Intellectual Capital. This has benefited the Nation and the World. Brand IIT is internationally acclaimed. Looking ahead Mission IIT is to increase this asset with the right mindset that serves India’s National Interest both nationally and internationally. 

A desire expressed by many is that the IITs should rank among the world’s best universities, in the same league as MIT, the Ivy League, and Stanford etc. The closest IIT comes to is MIT. The MIT curriculum includes Anthropology, Economics, and Political Science etc. The Ivy Universities have broader and more diverse majors. Therein lies a clue! Expecting the IITs in its current Avatar, to rise and rank among these Universities is like asking a Leopard to change its spots.

The issue that surfaces occasionally is that the IITs should serve India’s National Interest. This is cast as an Excellence Vs Relevance debate. Excellence is a given. The debate centers on Relevance. The Govt. of India is a major stakeholder by way of its investment in the IITs.  That makes the citizens of India major shareholders. The IITs must serve the National Agenda of Inclusive Growth and bridging the Urban-Rural Divide. In that respect, achieving World Class should be an outcome, not a goal. The goal ought to be to establish an Iconic category of Excellence with respect to serving the National Agenda. This could very well result in the IITs becoming a role model for other institutions across the world to follow.

Performance to Date:

The output of the IIT i.e. the “Product” comprises of the Graduates, Post Graduates, Relevant Research and Industry Engagements. The Nation has benefited from the accomplishments of the B.Tech students and the role the faculty has played in shaping the minds and capabilities of these students. The institution has produced numerous PhD, M.Tech and MSc graduates. Their contribution to the Nation is either unrecognized and at present not as significant as the contribution of the B.Tech graduates.

No one could have foretold the fact that the Nation (the US and the World) benefited from the combined efforts of graduates (both from IITs and other colleges) who migrated to the US, who together with graduates working in India brought about the Software Revolution as well as other technological advances. The much maligned and lamented Brain Drain morphed into Brain Gain.

As far as Research and Industry engagements is concerned? “There is hardly any worthwhile research from out IITs” says Ramesh.

However, past performance does not guarantee future results and there is general agreement that changes are required to generate the appropriate output for the future.

Mr. Murthy’s claim in the absence of valid data is conjecture. However, it could very well portend a trend that may be real. An important first step is to do a detailed analysis of the opportunities graduates are pursuing and feedback on their performance from Industry.

Focus on Technology:

Technology is a phase in a product life cycle between a Scientific Discovery being demonstrated in the lab and the discovery being part of some capability/utility that is reproduced reliably using Engineering methodology. That is to say Science is involved in discovering “something”. Technology is involved in demonstrating that this “something” can be reproduced and provides the platform for the Engineering phase which is involved in this “something” being part of a solution that has some broad or narrow utility.

With this in mind, the Excellence Vs Relevant issue would be to focus Excellence in Technology with Relevance being a target.

Expectations:

The expectation of the IITs is that it provides excellent technologists, technologists with business acumen, technologists with managerial and leadership skills, Innovators and Entrepreneurs. The goal is to contribute to the Technological Intellectual Capital of India. The country needs more individuals who will provide thought leadership and become change agents, the likes of Nandan Nilekani, Naraya Murthy, Jairam Ramesh and Arvind Kejriwal.

Graduates are expected to possess attributes critical to be successful in today’s environment, such as excellent presentation and inter-personal communication skills, be well versed in group dynamics, have the practical skills required to solve real world problems that go beyond just the theoretical realm. This underscores the importance of multi-dimensional skills and creative thinking.

With the above in mind, the following recommendations are made:

Recommendation #1:

Tune and refine the JEE. Improve it to filter in the best technical mind set. Maybe add sections that test analogies and logical thinking. A focus on English is a red herring. The JEE could be translated into regional languages and that would still work. Coaching will always be focused on cracking the Test in whatever Avatar it takes. 

Recommendation #2:

Expand the curriculum to include new majors in other areas like MIT – Economics, Political Science, Social Science etc. Set up separate JEEs to filter in students with excellent multi-dimensional skills. Use the real estate of the IITs effectively to build new departments. Make English proficiency an important criterion for these majors. New coaching classes will emerge. 

Recommendation #3:

The students enter as rough gems. The professors play an important role in shaping and polishing them. The rigor of the academic program acclimatizes students to deal with and perform under stress. The theoretical knowledge is the fabric for procedural thinking that provides the framework of solving real world problems. But that is not all. Ask any successful IIT graduate and they will assert that hostel life and experience gained outside of academics played a major role in their careers and lives. Each year assign a sizable number of the inter-disciplinary freshmen to a select set of hostels and let them be together till they graduate. Each year a different set of hostels can be selected.  Hostel 8 had the max number of IITB-75 graduates, which has emerged as the most successful batch of all IIT’s thus far. Hostel life fosters bonding and camaraderie that lasts for life and is stronger between batch mates and less so between different batches. If this sounds like Social Engineering, it is. Empirical evidence supports it. Extra-curricular activities are important and should be allowed to foster. This by far is probably the most important aspect of IITs. A healthy mix of academics and extra-curricular activities are key in shaping these precious stones into polished gems. The environment is analogous to that of a Petri Dish. Put the right mix of minds together, allow them to grow and progress. The results will be outstanding

Recommendation #4:

Rural India is trailing and it will take many years to catch up to assimilate advanced technologies that are prevalent in developed countries. What IIT can do for Rural India is an enigma at this time. However, making a six month rural residency requirement for all students of government aided institutes (not just IITs) will go a long way in bridging the "mind set" gap, between Urban and Rural India. In the initial stages the focus would be to build the infrastructure (toilets, living, and dining quarters). With comfortable living conditions this would be a wonderful experience for students of all disciplines to converge from all over the country. It will promote national integration and another level of bonding. As part of this exercise, graduates should be instilled in the notion of Nation Building.  IITians, collectively can play a major force in improving the Quality of Life for all segments of society, both Urban and Rural.  

Concluding Thoughts:

Globalization is nothing new. It has existed for centuries. What has changed is the velocity at which capital, goods, manufacturing and services move across international borders. India is playing “catch up” and currently importing “packaged” technology for applications such as, mobile telephones, internet connectivity and even automobiles. The IITs have to play a significant role in fostering Innovation and Entrepreneurship. Competing in the Global environment; to lead India to be a contender in the World Economy, requires people who have Quantitative and Qualitative expertise. The IITs are one of the institutions that have to play a major role to address this challenge as well.

References:

1. Jairam on IIT faculty:

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/iit-iim-faculty-not-world-class-jairam-ramesh-107764

2. Murthy on IIT:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/careers/education/NR-Narayana-Murthy-Quality-of-students-deteriorating-IITs/articleshow/10217630.cms

3. Ananth Kumar’s response:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/IIT-exam-panel-behind-poor-student-quality-Super-30-founder/articleshow/10241241.cms

4. IIT faculty echo Murthy:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/IIT-heads-echo-Narayana-Murthy-on-dipping-quality/articleshow/10296730.cms

Four Statements that cannot be disputed

1.  You  cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2.  What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The  government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You  cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.

Special Economic Zones (SEZ’s)

Despite all the controversies, India has rightfully embarked on building new “Urban Centres” in areas earmarked as SEZs. These Urban Centres will provide much needed relief to India’s Mega Cities. They will provide opportunities for urbanites as well as the uneducated, unemployed, unskilled (U3s) from Rural India (Bharat). Situating these SEZ’s on the periphery of existing cities and in Bharat, is inarguably the right solution for the entire country. 

These SEZs will provide opportunities for people:

• Currently living in India’s congested cities, 
• Living in Bharat, 
• Migrating from Bharat to India in search of a better life. 

The challenge is to build them fast, build them well and build till supply catches up with demand. An SEZ in Bharat i.e Rural India, will be a mixture of an Urban Economy, surrounded by a Rural Economy.

The requirement of export orientation only for an SEZ is an unnecessary constraint. The Economic Engine of the SEZ could be anything. Exports and Manufacturing are important, but jobs, any job and affordable housing are MORE IMPORTANT. Any estimate of the number of jobs are spread sheet guesstimates at best. The person who gets a job doesn't care if it is Manufacturing or Export Oriented.

The SEZ's main purpose should be to provide a magnet that will attract the “core” residents, namely the Middle Class (Urban and/or Rural) to move there and in the process provide employment for the Uneducated, Unskilled, Unemployed. It could be a “jobs” oriented SEZ, or a “housing” oriented SEZ, a la Vashi. Vashi was originally not intended to be the bedroom community of Mumbai, however, it flourished only after the extension of the harbour line to Panvel. Now one can hop on a train at Vashi and 55 minutes later arrive at CST (formerly VT). Although industrial employment was a goal at Vashi, for the most part it is bursting (literally) as a satellite to Mumbai for commuters. And while that maybe so, it provides plenty of service-oriented jobs in Vashi as well.

Regardless of its orientation, an SEZ has to provide ancillary amenities like schools, entertainment, retail outlets, medical facilities etc. for the "core" residents, to be motivated to move there; be it skilled people for jobs or commuters.

Figure 2

The whole focus of a "jobs" SEZ ought to be simplified. Attract big companies or a group of industries to establish operations in a zone demarcated as an SEZ and promote the formation of all the things around it that makes for a High Quality of Life for the individuals who reside there. Give companies that wish to establish an operation a Tax Break (like a pre-tax write off) rather than a tax holiday. Tax revenue could be realized from the income of the builders and providers of ancillary services needed to make the SEZ viable.

An outstanding example of an Industrial township in what was once Bharat is the steel city - Jamshedpur. When Tata's set out to establish a Steel Plant, they didn’t set out to build just a steel plant. They set out to build a city and they did. Their Steel Plant was the Economic Engine. And we have Vashi as a "commuter SEZ' example. There maybe some failures, and that is par for the course. Let the market decide where to invest their "construction" money. Let the government focus on facilitating the movement of capital, facilitating equitable land acquisition policies, assist in infrastructure and establish guidelines that protect the environment, safety and hygiene etc. Water and Electricity would be utilized even if the SEZ is a failure. SEZs should be thrown open for any sector.

Land Reform and Infrastructure:

Land for SEZ and Infrastructure to the site are the two big hurdles that Industrialists and Developers face. Acquisition of owned (malki) land has been contentious as experienced in Singur, Nadigram and other places. Current land laws inhibit parties from entering directly into agreement with landowner’s without government intervention. However, there is non-arable, non-forested land owned by the government that is available. This land could be leased or sold to SEZ developers. Land for SEZs and resentment amongst the rural population due to a number of reasons is a major hurdle that is stifling India’s economic progress. Addressing these issues is a must for a achieving the economic goals that will benefit those who have not benefited by liberalization.

A politically incorrect review of the World Cup Finals

India demonstrated it's Top, Middle and Bottom at the World Cup Finals against Sri Lanka. There was some confusion at the toss and it had to be redone. There was some speculation that the Sri Lankan captain recanted his choice. In any case, Sri Lanka won the toss and elected to bat. India's bowlers (the Bottom of the order) placed a strangle hold over the Sri Lankan  batting, choked their run rate during the first twenty overs and captured two crucial wickets. Sri Lanka's constipated batting  during this period was a crucial part that paid rich dividends later despite the diarrhea of runs during the final  overs. Zaheer, Munaf and Harbajan bowled well. Sreesanth was fodder thrown in resulting in a run frenzy during his spells. For all it's worth, India should have just thrown him into the Arabian Sea and let him swim back to Kerala. But for the 60 odd runs Sri Lanka scored in the last five Batting Power Play overs, they would have been rolled over by the Indian batting Juggernaut and we would have been left with flattened Sri Lankan Chappatis. The match would have ended early, with no drama whatsoever. A score of 250 would have been a cake walk. A Score of 300 would have been a challenge. 274 was just right for the good match it turned out to be. So let it not be forgotten that the initial spell by the Indian bowlers played a key role in setting the stage for a lower total and the later spell set the stage for an interesting match.That has to be appreciated. Sreesanth added grist to the mix besides being a warm body present to make up the eleven. There was talk of why not Arvind and someone even suggested Pathan. In the end it wouldn't have made a difference. Sreesanth and Piyush Chawla were place holders and get to be winners just by being there. Lucky dudes!

The Sri Lankan's walked in chest puffed and confident, having massacred the Indian bowling during the last ten overs. We've got bowling was their attitude. However, all India needed to do was keep the run rate around or at 5 for most of the innings and then finish off by making 275 for a victory.

Sehwag getting out on the second ball he faced was a BIG wicket. Sehwag was rather arrogant asking for a review without batting an eye lid. This was the second time he has done this. On another occasion, his celebrated colleague, Sachin Tendulkar asked his then partner Virat Kohli, at the other end whether his being given out LBW was questionable. Virat must have confirmed the umpire's decision and Sachin accepted the verdict without requesting a review. At the very least Sehwag could have solicited Sachin's opinion. India was expecting an explosive start from Viru, like the one that set the stage for the win over Pakistan. Nevertheless, Viru's loss would only meant India would have to work harder. 

Then Sachin fell at 31. Oh my gosh! He has been caught behind the wickets or in the slips so many times, because he went fishing. Should have waited for the next day. Would have been very relaxing. Visions of India's batting trend of lemmings jumping off a cliff one after another? Are we goners? Train wreck waiting to happen? Another fashion parade of men in blue walking in and walking out? We've seen this before one too many times? Is there life after Sachin? The Sri Lankans' chest puffed out even more? India's hopes took a hit with Sachin's wicket falling. India will have to pull a rabbit out of their helmets.

Somebody Tweeted....RAJINIKANTH IS THERE! HOW CAN WE LOSE? Oh yes, he helped with his eyes he neutralized Murali's spinnas and Malinga's Slingas. Score some for Rajinikanth, my namesake.

With Gambhir and Kohli batting well, hopes began to rise ...momentarily.  When Kohli was caught brilliantly, another gasp. Dhoni walks in. Why Dhoni and not Yuvraj? Dhoni hasn't had a good tournament batting wise, but he has performed well under pressure.  To keep the left right combination going, the commentators speculate, to unsettle the bowlers. Good move! Dhoni said it best, during his post victory interview, something like, pressure was mounting and often times he has come in when pressure was  over the top. This time he felt he could do something about it. It was his moment. With Dhoni and Gambhir cruising, India's hopes rose again. The Sri Lankans shoulders sag, the puff in their chest vanished. Poor Gambhir, there must be a bee in his bonnet. Dhoni counseled him a number of times to take it easy. His run rate, though rather a tad low, was not a problem. He could take his time to score his century for himself and notch one up for the country. Unfortunately, that was not to be, because of the bee? 

By then the crisis stage was over. India was cruising. However, India needed about just as many runs as balls to win. Despite the win within grasp, victory is not assured until it is done, signed and sealed. Tension mounted during the power play when the Gollywog Malinga, gave away just two runs(?) in the first Batting Power Play over. Pressure eased the next over with a four from Dhoni. And then spirits soared when another four followed in the next over and what a finish with a flourish it was, with a six by Dhoni! A well deserved, "Man of the Match".

The finals had its gut wrenching, teeth gnashing, stomach churning, tension ridden, breath taking moments. Hopes soared and then dipped a number of times. Many a flip flops occurred between times of certainty and times of uncertainty. It was one heck of a roller coaster ride. What a victory, what a dash to the finish. Two symbolic finals one against Australia, the world's number one (that's history), then Pakistan, (we hope many more will be played in the near future and beyond), and then the Final Finale!

At the end of it all it was a Match that was! क्या मैच था| 


P.S.  Got this from a Facebook post: DEAR RAJ THACKRAY, A CHANDIGARH LAD, A JHARKHAND CAPT & A DELHI BOY WON D WORLD CUP FOR US & DEDICATED IT TO A MARATHI LEGEND. UR REGIONAL HATRED HAS FAILED. JAI HO. ROCK ON INDIA ;-)

And that goes for Bal Thakur (That was his original last name, shouldn't he be proud of his Marathi roots) as well.


P.P.S. Good thing I was not there. Two Rajinikanth's and two Shastri's in the  same vicinity at the same time would have been more than the Wankede crowd could have handled. The crowd would have gone wild and the World Cup would have to be rescheduled. 

Now for a different perspective:

Country                 Population

Australia                 22 Million

Bangladesh           150 Million

England                  51 Million

India                    1.2 Billion

New Zealand            4.5 Million

Pakistan               176 Million 

South Africa            50 Million

Sri Lanka                20.5 Million

West Indies              4 Million

India has twice the population of the above top contenders put together. Granted about 60% or more of the males are not fortunate enough to have either the resources or physique to qualify for the team. However, with this kind of "demographic dividend", we should be nothing short of dominating the game rather than having to squeeze through at times. Let this be the goal for the next World Cup tournament to be held in Australia and New Zealand. 

P.P.P.S. A Rs. 1 crore ~ $225K award, did that have to be announced at the game? Sure the reward is well deserved. It could have been announced at a felicitation ceremony. Despite our progress we lack a sense of decorum.

At the IPL we call it auction instead of Draft. We say players are bought and sold instead of drafted or traded. Some of the dances in Bollywood movies are so sexually suggestive and the women dressed so scantily dressed, yet there is outrage over the cheer leaders at IPL.

In praise of Affluentitis

Affluentitis: A privilege that comes from having a significant amount of wealth which enables one to indulge in "conspicuous consumption". Could be misspelled as affluentitus, related affliction - Affluenza.


Conspicuous consumption is not to be confused with "wasteful consumption" which involves needless depletion of non-renewable resources. Conspicuous consumption primarily involves acquisition of luxurious items and partaking in extravagant experiences.

Affluentitis - a condition, not to be confused with Affluenza, which has negative connotations.


People with this privilege are the target of criticism by "Left Leaning" individuals and the envy of those who aspire to acquire it.


Affluentitis can be compared to an additive to the fuel of an engine that propels the "economic" train of a country. The challenge is to make this train long enough so that every individual has the opportunity to hop on board.


A vibrant economy with affluentitis can result in a turbo-charged economy. Skeptics need only look to China. Granted the disparity between the "nouveau riche" and the very poor is stark. Studies show that this is a transient situation. More and more people are being lifted out of poverty and China is well on the path to become the world's #1 economy mid-century, if not sooner.


The good news is that India is predicted to be the world's #2 economy some time this century. The bad news is that there will be about 1.5 Billion plus, people to share that pie. The challenge is to ensure every family is given the opportunity to "earn" their share of the pie.


Affluentitis creates opportunities for artisans. The acquisition of luxury goods provides employment for a number of persons both directly and indirectly. For example a luxurious watch studded with gems involves a number of artisans and the skills involved is intricate. The more expensive the item or experience, greater is the the opportunity for the providers to earn better wages. The caveat however is that this would hold true only if the items acquired are Swadeshi. The penchant for phoren stuff does nothing by way of employment for Desi artisans.


Furthermore what is and what is not "conspicuous consumption" is relative and involves making a moral judgement. For example the acquisition of an air-conditioner by a family in Jaipur, would be considered "conspicuous consumption" by a family living in a hut with no electricity in a village in Rajasthan, where extreme heat is experienced in summer.


Why is it then; when a person who stretches their budget to buy a piece of jewelry as a gift, it is considered reasonable, whereas when a person splurges on an airplane it is much ballyhooed? Relatively speaking, both are inessential and a luxury. Besides the airplane continues to create employment for a raft of highly skilled people. Granted, more people are involved in the jewelry business than in aviation. It only underscores the fact that the goal is to enable more people to be afflicted with nano-affluentitus, so that more jewelry is purchased. And so why not enable more people to buy personal planes for pleasure, like so many people do in the developed countries?


The goal for India is to remove the "artificial barriers" that inhibit affluentitus. Artificial barriers are ones that decree whether one is engaged in legitimate business or in a "business" that breaks the law. Once upon a time there was a ban on importing gold. People engaged in the "business" of bringing in gold were dubbed "smugglers". A change in the laws, resulted in the collapse of a "lucrative" underground activity and legitimized those who continued to engage in this business. One such barrier today is the Land acquisition laws. Other artificial barriers are of the protectionist kind as to who can do what and who can't. Protecting the economy from external "threats" is one issue. Erecting internal barriers results in protecting the weak and stifling the strong. It is better to enable the strong to perform better and give the weak alternative opportunities.


The economic situation and state of technology is far better today than what the US faced in the 1930's. The challenges for India are somewhat similar in that the plight of the poor and the state of the infrastructure is probably worse than what it was in the US at that time. The industrialists of that period were referred to by the pejorative term, "Robber Barons". Many of these "Robber Barons" have left legacies that and it is affluentitis that made such legacies possible.


The much appreciated Taj Mahal is an example of "conspicuous consumption" legacy. After all it was a tribute by one man, albeit a king, to one woman his departed beloved. Today, affluentitis is not just the privilege of the Royalty of the past. It is much more widespread and present in just about every country. For instance even in Cuba, which "inhibits" affluentitis, it is enjoyed by Castro and his coterie. In many instances affluentitis is acquired through unethical means. Needless to say, that should be prevented.


India is going through a period of cognitive dissonance. People hero worship cricketers, but make snide comments about the money they make. On the one hand there is "talk" of double digit growth, but when it comes to execution there are many barriers due to bureaucratic reasons i.e. corruption and anti-affluentitis sentiment which is the prevailing mindset in India. While people are entitled to their opinions, this mindset often results in becoming obstructionist.


Affluentitis is an indelible fact and rather than being slighted, it should be encouraged and applauded when acquired through diligence, hard work and ethical means.


Inherited affluentitis has its merits, as well. Particularly when the inheritors take their windfall to greater heights.


Every family desires and aspires for a better life.  For some it is wishful thinking. Many are willing to put in the effort required and achieve upward social mobility. Affluentitus is the inherent desire of all such families. After all the goal of every parent ought to be to provide a better platform than their own for their kids, from which their kids can launch their careers. Only when opportunities abound and this happens abundantly, will an economy and society flourish.

The Ayodhya Debate over the destruction of the Babri Masjid

The destruction of the Masjid was a terrible act. An opportunity to preserve the structure and give Hindus the right to worship within was lost.

The verdict was one of compromise, which under the circumstances is the best possible solution to this contentious issue. A total award to either side would have created an outrage among either the Hindus or the Muslims. And since there are three contesting parties, it resulted in a three way split. No community is happy, peace and calm prevails, which might have been otherwise.

Hopefully the Supreme Court will uphold the High Court verdict after going through the motions. Would anyone in their right mind want to tamper with the High Court decision? The arm chair crowd and talking heads will continue to debate for awhile, while the rest of the country will go about business as usual.

A festering issue that precedes Independence

The first recorded incident of violence over the issue between Hindus and Muslims in modern times took place in 1853 (See Note 1). A Hindu sect called the Nirmohis (2) claimed the structure, contending that the mosque stood on the spot where a temple had been destroyed during Babar’s time.

The Mosque was built in 1527. Permission to erect a temple was sought in 1885 and denied.Apparently Hindus used to worship Ram at this site since the late 1700s.

While many temples were destroyed by Mogul rulers all over India and by the Portuguese in Goa, none have been contested the way this particular temple has been. The ASI report does state that a temple did exist on this site. Based on the history of this conflict, it should have been settled in 1947.

In December 1949, idols were put inside the mosque (3). Our Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru at that time, didn't  think it was an important enough issue to settle. He presumably shot of a letter and then turned his attention to more pressing matters. Can't really blame him. Who would have thought the issue would continue to fester and flare up? He was focused on Nation Building, constructing his vision of temples of modernization and on implanting his idea of socialism which resulted in License Raj.

Shame on Times of India (4)
In India, there is a tendency to dwell on the negative and here is an article in the Times of India if taken at face value indicates that the majority of the Muslim community feels discriminated against. Dissatisfaction is understandable. But reading more into it is uncalled for.

A Historians Perspective (5)
And then you have supposedly noted historian stating that the verdict was politically motivated and supersedes a judicial one based on the laws of the country.

Doesn't she realize that laws themselves are politically defined? As she acknowledges at the very beginning of her reported commentary this issue could have been settled many years ago. But it wasn’t. The dispute predates the birth of India.

Unfounded fears
The very same noted Historian fears that this judgement sets precedence and opens up the Pandora’s Box for many similar claims. But this is not a new dispute and the principle of “Statute of Limitations” can be applied to any new or frivolous claims that surface. True many temples have been destroyed by both Mogul and European invaders, but the Hindu community has by and large accepted this unfortunate situation, except in this particular instance.

A compromise was possible

Many attempts were made to achieve a compromise solution. Despite many altercations and disputes an informal situation was prevalent and could have been the foundation of a workable compromise. All attempts to formalize the situation and work towards a mutually acceptable solution were thwarted by judicial maneuvering. Eventually it got politicized and then reached a point of no return.

Babri Masjid destruction – An act of revolution
Chiddu the Home Minister has gone on record to say that the destruction was a criminal act⁶. That maybe very well be so. But it was also a revolutionary act undertaken by a mob incited by politicians, all of whom were frustrated and incensed by the law not paying attention to an issue that has been burning prior to the birth of India. As a result a legacy of India’s heritage was ruined.

That aside, a person of his standing should realize that the case being judged was pertaining to the dispute and not the demolition. While he is entitled to his personal views, he ought to refrain from making such comments as the Home Minister. But then he is a politician and politicians can't help but wag their tongues for political gain.

Time to put the past behind us
Unlike Solomon who had to decide on a claim to a baby by two feuding mothers, this is after all a piece of land now, unfortunately. Hopefully the Supreme Court will decide quickly after hearing testimony from all parties concerned and uphold the decision of the High Court.

Here is another view that provides some interesting background and rationale:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Could-a-better-deal-have-been-struck-two-decades-ago/H1-Article3-607446.aspx

Notes:

1. See section on “Conflicts over this site” at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babri_Mosque

2. The Nirmohis have been granted 1/3 of the land in this judgement.

3. See Timeline:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayodhya_debate

4. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Verdict-makes-me-feel-like-a-2nd-class-citizen/articleshow/6661933.cms

5. http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article807232.ece

6. Chiddu’s opinion: http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2010/10/01/chidambaram-babri-masjid-destruction-criminal/

Amendment notification to Noise Pollution

To: Mr. Vijai Sharma,
Secretary to the Government of India,
Ministry of Environment and Forests,
CGO Complex, Lodhi Road,
New Delhi 110 003.

Mr. R. N. Jindal,
Additional Director (CP Division),
Room No. 556, Paryavaran Bhawan,
New Delhi – 11510
E-mail: envisect@nic.in

cc: Sumaira Abdulali - AWAAZ Foundation, E-mail: sumairaabdulali@yahoo.com
cc: Mr. Jairam Ramesh, E-mail: Jairam@vsnl.com

Subj: Amendment notification to Noise Pollution (Regulation & Control) Rules 2000

Dear Mr. Sharma & Mr. Jindal,

I am a resident of rural Uttara Kannada District, Karnataka. I have read the "Supreme Court on Noise" authored by Messrs. R. C. Lahoti & Ashok Bhan.

A friend of mine in Mumbai bemoaned the fact that enforcement of these guidelines have resulted in the demise of many outdoor cultural events, while political and religious infractions are rampant. In rural India, blaring speakers, Air Horns, loud noise made when locking and unlocking vehicles and the jingle of reversing vehicles are major sources of Noise Pollution that are constant – day & night.

Earlier this year I visited Kerala and was aghast at the volume of music emanating from temples. The daily call of the Mullah over the PA system is another issue.

Below are my comments:

Establishing norms that portray India as a Developed Country:
India is maturing and is a major economic power in this region. Economic growth will lift more people out of poverty and enable them to enjoy a better Quality of Life. We must prepare for the future and establish norms that reflect that of a Developed Nation.

Establishing a consistent set of norms that meets the “common denominator” expectations of all citizens for day-to-day life, is easily established. It is the exceptions that are contentious.

Accommodating India’s rich cultural heritage while embracing the future:
The biggest challenge is to maintain India's rich cultural and religious diversity and improve the Quality of Life of all citizens. In addition, conformity should be instituted and applied throughout India with no exceptions.

In maintaining cultural and religious heritage, I recommend norms that were prevalent at the dawn of religion and culture. There were no electrical devices then. However, it is suggested that exceptions be made for specific religious functions as noted below.

Two sets of norms recommended – Daily 24x7 norms and exceptions:
As indicated earlier, a “common denominator” set of guidelines should be established that has 24x7 applicability. This set of norms is devoid of any cultural, political, social or religious bias.

A second set of guidelines should be set up to address the needs of society and would relax the 24x7 norms. Activities that would be heard by the public, that involve noise over a pre-determined level should require permission and a pay for privilege fee. This would constitute a revenue stream.

Issues commented on:

• The biggest issue is loud speakers (including noise emanating outdoors from the indoor use of speakers) at marriage, cultural, social, political and religious functions.
• Excessive noise producing instruments and equipment
• Fire crackers
• Cultural Music events
• Enforcement

Loudspeakers:
A common set of rules should apply to all. There should be no differentiation between faith, state and civil issues.

Permission for the use of loudspeakers within acceptable guidelines and timings for Public Meetings, Marriages, Social/Entertainment functions and Religious Discourses, etc. should be available for a fee.

Excessive Noise:
Construction in populated areas should be limited between 8AM and 6PM. Exceptions should be made for pouring concrete at night in populated areas and should require permission.

The use of excessive noise producing instruments like drums and tom toms is another contentious issue. Playing of music through portable PA Systems is now common during processions, like during Ganesh Chaturti. A pay for privilege scheme should be established wherein a fee structure is established depending upon instruments used and the size of the processions. A simple procession during established festivals should require no permission.

Clanging noise made during certain Puja’s such as Krishna Jayanti and House Warming should be allowed using conches, and bells/chimes that have predefined audio characteristics.

The use of personal audio devices on speakers (like mobile phones) in shared public transport vehicles should be banned. Use should be restricted to listening via ear phones. Use of loud ring-tones should also be discouraged. Needless to say, the use of blaring air horns and reversing jingles should be banned. Vehicle and ancillary manufacturers should be required to install muted beeps that signal opening/closing of doors and vehicle reversing.

Fire Crackers:
This is a sensitive issue indeed. Traditionally, it is part of Diwali and Tulsi Puja celebrations that take place in close proximity of each other. Lately, it is becoming part of New Year, Independence Day, Republic Day, marriages and entertainment events (like IPL). In keeping with traditions, one set of noise guidelines should be established to govern the use of fire-crackers (slightly more relaxed to accommodate noise making crackers) on specific days during the Diwali and Tulsi Puja period. Another set of noise guidelines should be established for emerging norms, like for Independence Day, Republic Day and New Years.

All other events should fall under the pay for privilege guidelines. If a party wants to burst crackers during a marriage procession, they ought to acquire permission for the size of procession, instruments involved and fire-crackers and pay the appropriate fee.

Cultural Music Events:
India has a rich heritage of Folk & Classical music. Use of loud speakers at these functions should be governed by the noise guidelines. However, use of acoustic instruments and limited percussion instruments should be permitted into the night at festivals and concerts.

Enforcement:
Finally, these guidelines don’t serve any purpose if they are not enforced and are flagrantly violated. And as indicated earlier, they should be consistent across the country. However, India is a diverse society and it is possible that a set of rules that works for one region is too restrictive for another. Multi-religious, multi-ethnic body should be appointed that recommends exceptions that can be bubbled up to the National Level. This is a people’s issue and people should be actively encouraged to take part in the formulation of these guidelines through a constant process of dialog.

Regards,

L. K. Advani - The mouse that roars...off & on

Lal Krishna Advani represents the "old Hindustan", that was responsible for the stifling "Nehruvian Rate" (mistakenly called the Hindu Rate) of progress. Until the BJP came to power he was a mouse for the most part. The world has changed drastically. He is totally unqualified to lead Hindustan in the current economic and global environment. He doesn't appeal to youth of the country. Time to pass the mantle to a younger group of people who are more in touch and qualified to deal with the world’s economic environment.

Lal Krishna Advani was born in 1927. http://www.lkadvani.in/eng/content/view/341/256/.

He joined the RSS in 1942. Other than being involved in RSS activities, he makes no mention of any significant role in Hindustan's Independence movement. Most of his "formative political years" were spent in organizing and administrativ activities wherein he established himslef as a good party man. Through the Nehru years he was a party loyalist working his way first in the Bharatiya Jana Sangh (in 1958), which merged with the Janata Party (in 1975) and later became the Bhartiya Janata Party, founded in 1980.

He was elected to the Rajya Sabha in 1970 while with the Jana Sangha. He writes; "In my early speeches in the Rajya Sabha, I articulated my thoughts on some issues that I have subsequently raised in Parliament in one way or the other during the past decades. These were: how to strengthen the unity and integrity of the country; how to safeguard our democratic institutions and make them more effective; why the ruling party must learn to respect the voice of the Opposition; and how to make Centre-state relations smooth and harmonious." In other words, he warmed the bench in the Rajya Sabha and was a "talking head".

He became the BJP in President in 1986, and the hitherto "mouse" began to make some noises….occasionally. He rose to prominence with his Ratha Yatras and probably had something to do with the Babri Masjid demolition. While these allegations probably would not hold up in a court of law, it is hard to believe an RSS member not having any knowledge of an activity that was obviously pre-planned. Either that or he was woefully out of touch with the RSS or lying. Either way….clean bowled on one aspect or the other.

As the Home Minister during the Kandahar hijacking incident, the mouse ducked. He claims that he was not involved in some of the critical decisions taken. So he was not in charge or lying. Either way….clean bowled on one aspect or the other.

He criticized Dr. Manmohan Singh as being the weakest PM India has seen. Things got personal and ugly. Dr. Manmohan Singh was heading up a fragile coalition during his first tenure and has emerged victorious with UPA II. The mouse during the Kandahar episode was vanquished.

The BJP positioned the 2008 election as a choice between Advani and Dr. Manmohan Singh. The mouse roared and lost. The party found another scapegoat to sacrifice and the mouse sat still.

When Jaswant Singh was expelled, the mouse kept quite. No support for a learned and respected colleague! As a prominent member of the party, one has to take a stand either for or against the issue. One can’t sit on the sidelines with their tail between their legs. Either way….clean bowled.

Based on recent events, with the expulsion of Jaswant Singh and side lining of other "thinking" individuals, the BJP has demonstrated a complete lack of "Intellectual capacity" and is portraying itself as a dogmatic party that pays more importance to "Moral Policing" than ascribe to the values that Vajpayee promoted.

Advani is shackled by the BJP ideology (dogma) and its upholding of traditional values, one of them being; "Respect for Elders". Good value no doubt, but the elders should realize that their prime is past and ought to make way for the youth.

So long Advani, time to be the mouse that you are and fade away.

A Politically Incorrect Analysis

The BJP big wigs squatted in Shimla at their "Chintan Baitak" (Aug 19th-22nd, 2009) and agonized over their defeat in the Lok Sabha elections. What ought to have transpired.

Let's start at the top. Advani is a dinosaur. He doesn't appeal to youth of the country. He represents the "old India", that was responsible for the stifling "Nehruvian Rate" of progress. On the other hand, Dr. Manmohan Singh, with all his faults (no charisma, Mr. Mumble, robotic...) is genuine, has a brilliant mind that is honed for the current world economic dynamics and he has a gentle heart.

The BJP's Hindutva angle resonates wherever there is a significant Hindu-Muslim divide like in Gujarat and Karnataka. However, this does not appear to resonate at the National level. And so the BJP has relegated itself to more of a Regional Party with some National Presence. And the Congress has asserted itself as a National Party.

Looking back at the election rhetoric, the Congress harped on its secular credentials and that it has served the country well during its administration. Both are perceived as valid claims, even if its approach to secularism is to treat each religious group differently. And the fact is, the country has done well during the last five years and has weathered the economic downturn.

Rahul Gandhi played a very important role and really hit his stride. He energized the youth and a number of young Congress candidates featured in the news. The BJP on the other hand is shackled by its ideology (dogma) and its upholding of traditional values, one of them being; "Respect for Elders". Good value no doubt, but the elders should realize that their prime is past and ought to make way for the youth. The Congress has positioned Rahul as the successor to the Party Leadership. The BJP has announced no clear heir and the name Modi is mentioned. Another oldie!

The NREGA program is a big boon to the rural Uneducated, Unskilled and Unemployed. That sure must have brought in the Rural Vote. The BJP on the other hand harped on National Security and blowing smoke up the PM's behind, which back fired. It is one thing to take jibes at the PM at cocktail parties and informal gatherings. Things got personal and ugly.

Another factor that hurt the BJP is the emergence of Federalism: Coincident with this election is the establishment of Federalism and strong regional parties that are leading their respective State Governments and focused on their regional issues. Naveen Patnaik's dumping the BJP was a masterful stroke. This emergence of Fedralism represents a maturing of the people of the country. The States should wrest more power from the Center, with Members of Parliament focusing on National Issues like across the board consistency in commercial, legal and education policies, Defense, Foreign Policy, Fiscal/Monetary Policy etc. Right now Delhi grabs too much from the country and has taken the place of the British Crown. Getting funds is not a problem for Sheila Dixit. Efficient execution of programs is her challenge.

What remains to be seen is whether the UPA will work effectively with the non-UPA led states, like Bihar, Orissa, Gujarat, Karnataka etc. The "Duryodhana Complex" is endemic in India where one is not happy with what they have, they want what is not theirs, they are dissatisfied with their own success, and in order to look better, they will put down their opponents. Instead of running faster, and performing better, the focus is on coasting and bashing the opponents/competitors. The fact is that the States have power, they just need to assert it.

Interesting times ahead. Migration away from Vote Bank politics to Development: Rahul Gandhi in his infamous press conference cited Nitish Kumar (Bihar) and Naveen Patnaik (Orissa) as good examples of pro-development and secular leaders. We are a mini-Europe and we need to "devolve power" to the States. It is interesting to note, he could not cite (even if he wanted to) a single Congress Chief Minister that has done good for his/her State, with the exception of Sheila Dixit who leads a tiny "state". The reason cited by some, is that the Congress CM has to get approval from the "high command" on every decision he/she takes. Maharashtra for instance is cited as the worst performing Congress lead State. But the political mandate is clear. People want "Development" and "Jobs".

Based on recent events, with the expulsion of Jaswant Singh and side lining of other "thinking" individuals, the BJP has demonstrated a complete lack of "Intellectual capacity" and is portrating itself as a dogmatic party that pays more importance to "Moral Policing" than ascribe to the values that Vajpayee promoted.

जय हो,

Let's Get Truly Secular

Upholding secularism was a clarion call in the recent elections. All the non-NDA parties coalesced around this banner pushing the BJP into a corner that it found hard to defend. So given the broad consensus on "secularism", let us get Truly Secular.

True Secularism would mean a consistent "non-denominational" set of laws for all Bharatvasis. Not one set for Hindus, another for Muslims and yet another for Christians. Having a Universal Law that is applied to each citizen regardless of their religious affiliation would be true secularism.

And it is time to separate Faith from State. Faith issues should be devoid of any governmental and political control. For instance the BJP's insistence that the Vande Mataram should be sung in all public schools is unacceptable, and rightly so to non-Hindus. It mentions Goddess Durga and there is subtle reference to her being the "Mother".

As part of being secular the government and politicians should have no say in religious organizations as long as the religious organizations operate within the law and act ethically. There is a hue and cry over Christian organizations flush with cash from foreign sources enticing the desperately poor to embrace Christianity in return for assistance. My heart goes out to the poor, who have no one to turn to and so "sell" their faith for survival. In a secular society people should have the freedom to embrace and practice any religion of their choice provided they are not coerced or forced. One could argue that this "purchasing" of a person's faith is a business deal and one of garnering "market share". And so look at it as a commercial activity and apply laws of commerce. A person willingly "selling" their faith allegiance in return for assistance should be treated as a personal issue. Whether there ought to be anti-conversion laws or not, is a debatable issue. One could consider anti-solicitation laws applicable to this issue. So let’s get secular and debate this issue in court and come to some mutual consensus that is enacted into law. Make this an issue for the courts to decide.

Currently many temple boards have political appointees and the government takes a cut from donations made to a temple. Granted religious organizations should be governed, however this should be done by third party committees consisting of members of their respective congregation. And the same set of rules should be applicable to all religious entities, be it a temple, church, synagogue or mosque.



And there is the issue of monetary assistance being given to poor Muslims who wish to make the journey to Mecca. This is an issue of tax payer money being spent on a religious activity and violates the very tenet of secularism.


No religious artifacts ought to be displayed in Government Offices, unless it is displayed in a personal context in an official's office. i.e. an individual should have the freedom to display articles of their faith at their office or work station.

And so the time has come to be Truly Secular and establish a wall of separation that prevents the intrusion of the Government into Religious and Faith issues. Like wise, specific faith issues should be outside the ambit of the laws. What we need to do is  establish ONE set of laws that govern ALL Bharatvasis regardless of their religious affiliation.

M. F.Hussain's Paintings

I must admit that I was rather complacent about M.F. Hussain's controversial painting until I received an e-mail with images of his paintings (See Below). I did some googling and came across the site that depicts these and a few other Hussain paintings. 


Bal Thakarey is known for making inflammatory remarks on a number of subjects, and one of his targets is the Muslim community. What Thakeray portrays in his words, Hussain expresses in his paintings. After all a painting speaks a thousand words. To me that puts Hussain and Thakeray in the same box and I hold both of them in equal contempt.


What irked me is that Hussain has scribbled the names of the deities in the paintings leaving no opportunity for a benefit of doubt.


When the Danish cartoons were published, there was mayhem all over the world, there were riots in India (go figure). In Hindustan barring a few assaults on exhibition of Hussain's paintings, and a case against him; that was dismissed by the Supreme Court....Nothing! This speaks for the tolerance of the Indian people.


Granted, the images of these pictures were not published in a newspaper, but here we have a recipient of a Padma Bhushan in 1973, the Padma Vibhushan in 1989, and a person who was nominated to the Rajya Sabha in 1986, producing art that is insulting to Hindus.


In the Supreme Court ruling, "The judges described one of Hussain's controversial paintings as "a work of art," according to the Times of India. "There are many such pictures, paintings, and sculptures, and some of them are in temples also," the court said."


Excuse me, I have not seen a depiction of Durga seemingly having sex with a lion, or a naked Lakshmi with her feet on Ganesha or Saraswati depicted naked anywhere. Yes Hindu deities are depicted topless and there are plenty of sculptures that would be deemed obscene by people. However, they celebrate not denigrate.


Now if the judge/court had said that the paintings are in poor taste, that they are objectionable and offend the Hindu community.....but, we uphold Hussain's right to free speech and expression and we are bound constitutionally to judge him not guilty....I would have accepted the verdict.


And since I am a person who believes in freedom of expression, had he produced paintings that depicted Mohammad or Christ or Mary in compromising positions, I would have given him the benefit of doubt, for after all he is eccentric and one could say a bit insane. But he didn't. This to me is bigotry. Besides these objectionable paintings, he has painted a decapitated Mahatma Gandhi along with Hitler, Marx and Einstein. What is he trying to say here?


In the name of secularism, the "pseudo intellectual" Hindus will rationalize any insult dished out at the Hindu community and uphold a person's right to free speech and expression. That is all very fine and dandy. Widespread destructive agitation is not the answer, at the same time should Hindus just turn the other cheek? What would be a rational response?


In my view Hindus need to express their displeasure with measured responses and by silently protesting any exhibition of his paintings anywhere in the "secular" world. Hindus should make it clear that they are not proud of M.F. Hussain. At every opportunity that presents itself regarding him, prominent Hindustani's should express their displeasure and censure him and point out his bigotry.


Yes, in Hindustan, individuals have a right to free speech and expression, provided it does not incite hatred and violence. This also means that individuals should be prepared to deal with the consequences. In this instance, Hussain has had to leave the country for fear of his life. If he has any semblance of self respect, he should stay away and continue his self imposed exile.


People who hurt the "sentiment" of a community are branded "communalists" in India. Shouldn't Hussain's one-sided views expressed in his paintings be branded communalist as well?

Postscript: Hussain has taken up citizenship of Qatar. The "pseudo intellectuals" are bemoaning this as a great loss for India. Let us not confuse the man and his art. He is a great artist no doubt, but as a man, he has offended the land that made him. Leaving it, whether out of fear or otherwise is appropriate. It is leaving the house he has insulted. If he were to paint Mohammad in bad light in Qatar, they would have his head! Would he dare?

DurgaSaraswati

Lakshmi

Mother India

Mogul King & Brahmin
Einstein, Gandhi, Marx & Hitler

Parvati
Hanuman, Ravana & Sita